In addition, the "no soccer kicks, stomps, and knees to the head of a grounded opponent" rule, have wrestler-based fighters not that worried about knees and kicks if their execution of a takedown is less than perfect. Everbody's seen wrestlers practice takedowns where they duckwalk across the arena, one knee down at all times to hide behind the rules. Wrestlers in the top position don't have to worry about upkicks from the guard, because it's "illegal". Even wrestlers (and others too), while in the clinch, put one hand to the mat, to prevent knees and kicks to the head.
BUNK THAT HOMES! If you seek a career in fighting you should learn how to prevent yourself from getting kicks and knees and stomps to the head.
The Pride rules would also stop wrestlers from spooning out decision victories. And if the wrestler is pushing someone up against the cage and not doing anything, the ref would be obligated to move the fight to the center of the ring.
Wrestlers take full advantage of the Unified Rules and its time to stop.
|||You bring in those rules people will have more ammo to keep it banned in certain cities.Although I do agree that wrestlers take advantage of it by stalling but there's better ways around it to keep from wrestlers constantly on top and doing nothing. Its all in the judges itself.They think on top = winning|||get rid of elbows to a grounded opponent and put in the knees!
elbows are much more dangerous than the knees... in all the fights I've seen so far nobody was hurt that much by knees to the head as from elbows...
the only reason for elbows to be allowed is that they please the "just bleed"-guys... :)
no need for stomps or soccer kicks, IMO|||
Knees to the head can paralyze someone...|||kicks and stomps to the head isnt fighting, its violence, and i think there is a difference, i like it how it is, i think knees to the ground maybe, and the 6-12 elbow, but seriously allowing stomps is moronic, you wouldnt say that if you're a fighter, its all good watching and playing mma, but its different fighting it, you can get serious brain injury.|||I'm all for it but you know just as well as I do the athletic commissions will go crazy.
get rid of elbows to a grounded opponent and put in the knees!
elbows are much more dangerous than the knees... in all the fights I've seen so far nobody was hurt that much by knees to the head as from elbows...
the only reason for elbows to be allowed is that they please the "just bleed"-guys... :)
no need for stomps or soccer kicks, IMO
One things that NEEDS to be there imo are knees to the head. Thats a must, keep wrestlers from getting to friendly with their base.
And I wouldn't mind soccer kicks either. You guys wan't to call this mixed martial arts, but then complain about someone kicking the other in the head when he's down? Why can't he? How about when a BJJ expert tries to pull guard and fails, why can't the striker stomp his head and make him pay?
Nah lets just let the BJJ guy pull guard and fail all he wants and lets let wrestlers get sprawled with very little penalty.
The reason I want these things in is not because they are violent, but to even out the playing field even further.|||Not this dumb *ss thread again.
Its simple: GET BETTER AT TAKE DOWN DEFENSE -IT SEEMS TO BE A DYING ART THESE DAYS.
BECOME MORE DIVERSE AS A FIGHTER.
Chuck Liddell dominated during an era when grapplers reigned supreme, a big reason for that was his TDD.
Anderson Silva doesn't seem to have any problems kicking the everlasting crap out of most fighters, and when he does wind up on the mat, his diversity usually prevails.
This discussion is just f***ing stupid imo. I'm not opposed to BOTH cages and rings being used -but please stop with these weak *ss arguments that wrestlers have too much of an advantage -there are plenty of bad *ss strikers in MMA that throw their weight around and win fights in cages.
-VV
Nah lets just let the BJJ guy pull guard and fail all he wants and lets let wrestlers get sprawled with very little penalty.
The striker can always step back and force the ref to stand the fight back up. Its really a very simple solution here.|||
Not this dumb *ss thread again.
Its simple: GET BETTER AT TAKE DOWN DEFENSE -IT SEEMS TO BE A DYING ART THESE DAYS.
BECOME MORE DIVERSE AS A FIGHTER.
Using that logic why don't grapplers learn to strike? Why don't grapplers actually try and win the match? Its not about the matter of someone out grappling its the fact that those wrestlers refuse to submit or tko someone.Most people don't care about guys grappling what they want are guys who have ambition to win without it going to the judges. It also makes me laugh when a guy who tries to blanket a win and the judges don't give it to him so he cries, well that wouldn't happen if they'd just win ffs. That kind of stuff makes MMA looks incredibly bad when guys refuse to finish a fight.
Most guys people complain about are boring like Jon Fitch who has gone to 12 straight decisions hardly any of them he tries to sub the guy and he brags about how good hsi subs are. Thats what I have a problem with. What about Rashad who layed on Rampage and Thiago Silva against the cage?Its all the same crap
People wont complain if there are finishes but when they see a guy just lay on someone throwing a couple strikes peppering in every once in a while of course people are going to get pissed. The fighters I believe are too when someone lays on them and don't try to finish. Its not about TDD its about actually trying to end a fight which most wrestlers don't try to do.|||
Using that logic why don't grapplers learn to strike? Why don't grapplers actually try and win the match? Its not about the matter of someone out grappling its the fact that those wrestlers refuse to submit or tko someone.Most people don't care about guys grappling what they want are guys who have ambition to win without it going to the judges. It also makes me laugh when a guy who tries to blanket a win and the judges don't give it to him so he cries, well that wouldn't happen if they'd just win ffs. That kind of stuff makes MMA looks incredibly bad when guys refuse to finish a fight.
Thought this thread was about the disadvantages that strikers had against wrestlers in a cage setting, not the other way round?
Again, how do you explain Silva's dominance? How do you explain Chucks dominance? Two different eras mind you. Its simple, they were prepared to fight where ever they had/have to, and also used strategy and training that allowed them to impose their will on other fighters.
Nothing you have taken the time to type here proves anything here except that alot of fighters that you seem to be supporting this idea of needing a ring for aren't properly prepared to fight against someone that has superior grappling skills.
Very little of what anyone in this thread has taken the time to type out puts any focus on some of the specific grapplers in this discussion such as GSP that are amazing and forcing their will on how the fight plays out on their opponent, in other words: a fighter like GSP (IMO) would be just as dominant in a ring as in a cage. Why? Because he's that damn good -he prepares well and is well rounded.
Point being; a fighter that is simply better than his opponent will beat his opponents *ss no matter where the fight takes place : the street, a basement, a garage -ring/cage - doesn't f***ing matter either way. A striker has every bit of an opportunity to flash his brilliance in a cage as he does outside of it when facing a grappler, points proven MANY times over by fighters like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Shogun, Chuck, Joes Aldo....the list goes on.
Again, this argument set within the confines of where you're trying to hold it as in "grapplers have more advantage" is stupid, and always will be.|||
The striker can always step back and force the ref to stand the fight back up. Its really a very simple solution here.
Not quite as exciting as someone going Shogun on the other dudes head, not as effective either. Anyway I just gave my opinions on this I'm not going to argue about rulesets.|||Only thing they need to take from PRIDE is the card system. Nothing can motivate a fighter to fight quite like taking money out of his wallet.|||
Thought this thread was about the disadvantages that strikers had against wrestlers in a cage setting, not the other way round?
Again, how do you explain Silva's dominance? How do you explain Chucks dominance? Two different eras mind you. Its simple, they were prepared to fight where ever they had/have to, and also used strategy and training that allowed them to impose their will on other fighters.
Nothing you have taken the time to type here proves anything here except that alot of fighters that you seem to be supporting this idea of needing a ring for aren't properly prepared to fight against someone that has superior grappling skills.
Very little of what anyone in this thread has taken the time to type out puts any focus on some of the specific grapplers in this discussion such as GSP that are amazing and forcing their will on how the fight plays out on their opponent, in other words: a fighter like GSP (IMO) would be just as dominant in a ring as in a cage. Why? Because he's that damn good -he prepares well and is well rounded.
Point being; a fighter that is simply better than his opponent will beat his opponents *ss no matter where the fight takes place : the street, a basement, a garage -ring/cage - doesn't f***ing matter either way. A striker has every bit of an opportunity to flash his brilliance in a cage as he does outside of it when facing a grappler, points proven MANY times over by fighters like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Shogun, Chuck, Joes Aldo....the list goes on.
Again, this argument set within the confines of where you're trying to hold it as in "grapplers have more advantage" is stupid, and always will be.
Its a half * logic and you know it because it goes both ways.
Explain what? Silva was taken down repeatedely by wrestlers only to sub them thats fine but what does that have to do with take down defence?Chuck is a wrestler that answers your question.Next
You haven't really brought up any decent enough argument to disprove what I said. Guys who blanket wont get respect because they have no ambition to finish a fight. Thats a fact. Thats why fans boo. Fans cheer for subs and tko's fans don't care if the fight is GOOD enough to goto a decision. The fans want good fights but they don't get it from guys who just lay on their opponent for the whole fight refusing to finish. Thats my gripe but I don't think you quite understood that despite me explaining that about 5 times.
This whole argument stems from performances like Jon Fitch,recent Rashad Evans. I'll have no problem watching Maia vs Miranda matches all day. It was fun to watch because at least Maia tried to win within the time.
At the end of the day people just want guys to TRY to actually win. You show that and fans wont care how you win,though they would rather you win by sub or tko if it gets to the ground.|||In other terms these were effective tools to do damage and bring pure form and ad even ground to the balance with extra tools to finish. Pride was just above vale tudo pretty much make the best rules and the best strategy and best excitement in that era but why does it have to stop by tainting the rules to a limited matter pretty much should go back to pancrase if we don't want combat in combat sports.|||
-SLB
Its a half * logic and you know it because it goes both ways.
No, it does not. A wrestler that has the ability to 'blanket' a guy to death in MMA in a cage OR a ring. Once they get that TD, it can be a long day/night for whoever they're in there against.
The 'Yellow cards' and 'kicks/knees' to the head of a grounded opponent are much better places to foucs your energy in this debate: I suggest you start thinking more about those bullet points.
Silva was taken down repeatedely by wrestlers only to sub them thats fine but what does that have to do with take down defence?
1st off, see the Maia and Henderson fight. Silvas TDD was terrific against Maia. In the Hnderson fight, he got put on the mat in the 1st round, and made Hendo pay for trying all that again in the 2nd.
The Sonnen fight was brought up because its a great example of a striker being extremely well rounded. Which was the 2nd point I made in my original post: fighters need to learn better TDD, and become more well rounded.
Chuck is a wrestler that answers your question.Next
Josa Aldo is not a wrestler, now what?
And being that he fights in the division he fights in, he's fought PLENTY of wrestlers (MTB, Faber) and not been taken down much because he has great TDD.
And regardless of WHY Chuck had great TDD, he had it. Thats kind of my point here.
Guys who blanket wont get respect because they have no ambition to finish a fight. Thats a fact. Thats why fans boo.
No, they don't get respect because many fans are ignorant and don't understand the ins and outs of what they're seeing -and the fighters that talk sh*t about them are the fighters that have problems against them -see: 'BJ Penn'.
And no, nothing you have in this sentence is a fact; its an opinion.
This whole argument stems from performances like Jon Fitch,recent Rashad Evans. I'll have no problem watching Maia vs Miranda matches all day. It was fun to watch because at least Maia tried to win within the time.
And my counter arguments for using fighters as examples would be Anderson Silva, Chuck, Jose Aldo and many more.
Not every fight can be exhilarating bud, its just the way it is.
At the end of the day people just want guys to TRY to actually win. You show that and fans wont care how you win,though they would rather you win by sub or tko if it gets to the ground.
And yet you haven't explained quite how a ring solves this problem as opposed to a cage. Do you mean to suggest that wrestler cannot get a TD and wrestle f*** someone from top position for 3-5 rounds in a ring?
I hope not. Use your head SLB.
Only thing they need to take from PRIDE is the card system. Nothing can motivate a fighter to fight quite like taking money out of his wallet.
Holy sh*t people. mark this day down. JBrock and M_E actually agree on something.
Even I am shocked. I have always liked this idea, it would work fairly well imo.
-NS
Not quite as exciting as someone going Shogun on the other dudes head, not as effective either. Anyway I just gave my opinions on this I'm not going to argue about rulesets.
No, but its a way that currently exsists to defuse the situation you presented.
|||Its pride! Pride rules, if you dont want to get headstomped, get back to the ufc or whatever! - Wanderlei Silva
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