California-based Hoelzer Reich apparel company has been banned from sponsoring fighters at future UFC and WEC events.
WEC general manager Reed Harris expressed his personal concerns regarding the company's "German-themed" apparel on today's edition of MMAjunkie.com Radio (www.mmajunkie.com/radio), and the exec told Yahoo! Sports shortly after the interview that Zuffa, LLC, will no longer allow its athletes to wear Hoelzer Reich apparel into the cage at UFC or WEC events.
MMAjunkie.com has since confirmed the report with a representative from Zuffa, LLC, the parent company of both MMA promotions.
Hoelzer Reich has come under fire for its use of symbolism associated with Nazism, including the Iron Cross, logos closely resembling those such as the "SS" used by the Schutzstaffel, the Totenkopf skull, and other mottos and symbols commonly associated with Nazi Germany.
The controversy surrounding the brand grew over the weekend when UFC newcomer Joe Brammer wore a Hoelzer Reich shirt to the cage for his preliminary card bout with Mark Bocek at The Ultimate Fighter 10 Finale. Brammer's entrance was shown during the Spike TV-broadcast event, and concern from outraged and concerned observers spread throughout the mixed martial arts community.
Harris today admitted he wasn't 100 percent familiar with the brand, but he didn't envision the organization supporting a group that portrayed any sort of racist message.
"I'll tell you my personal opinion: I'm against any group that obviously portrays the white, Aryan stuff, or any of that stuff," Harris told MMAjunkie.com Radio. "I don't know if that necessarily involves [Hoelzer Reich]. I've been told that it may. If it does, I'm not going to support it. That's my own opinion.
"If you look at our fighters, we are a diverse group. If you go to our office and look at who works there – I've worked for a lot of companies – it's the most diverse group of people I've ever worked with, and it's wonderful. I'm not sure how [Hoelzer Reich sponsorships] are all going to play out, but I've started to kind of look into it myself. I'm not sure if it's something that's going to work in the WEC."
In a statement on the company's official website, Hoelzer Reich co-owners Jed Colvin and Jamie Vine emphatically deny that their designs are developed based on anything other than their "love for apparel and design and desire to create a bad * line of apparel that represents our family heritage and interest in MMA."
"We do not have any political affiliations with any organizations, nor specific views of any controversial parties," the statement reads. "Our interest in the Iron Cross and German history comes strictly from a historical and ancestral standpoint.
"For many years, we have collected German memorabilia dating back to the early 1800's which has been passed through the family for generations.The Iron cross symbol and other German-inspired imagery used on our apparel dates back hundreds of years, and does not depict a certain time of German History."
Hoelzer Reich's official website currently advertises its associations with WEC fighters Donald Cerrone and James Krause, but Harris told Yahoo! Sports that "Cowboy" had severed ties with the company "months ago."
Harris said the decision to completely eliminate the brand from the WEC, UFC, or both would have to come from the highest reaches of the organization.
"At the end of the day, (UFC president) Dana White and (UFC co-owner) Lorenzo (Fertitta) make those decisions," Harris said. "But I certainly have input, and I think they would probably make that same decision."
For now, at least, it appears they have.
I can see their point of view but it is really retarded. It is all based off of speculation and ignorance. Really tho, the Iron Cross has been around way before WWII. It dates back to the 1800's. It was give to soldiers for actions of bravery on the battlefield. If you look at the history behind it, it makes perfect sense for fighters to wear an Iron Cross to the cage. Was it used in WWII? Yes but that is only because it was an award given to soldiers through out the German history. It wasn't something created during WWII.
A simple search into google could have told you this.|||
|||So because a 2 guys who are white supremacists where given or bought shirts that makes them a Nazi company?
Also those symbols again have been used through out history. Just because the Nazi's wore them, it wasnt something created by them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo_rune
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptmann
These are all symbols that have been around long before Nazis. They are symbols that they took and tried to make their own. Don't get me wrong, I am not a white supremacist or anything but I hate it when people point out things and start slandering people because they do not understand. Also I am a history buff :)
Either way, I can see the point like i said earlier but if you do a little dip into history you can see a lot of these symbols were around before WWII.
|||Just added the pic so people can see whats on the shirts.
Honestly I dont care, they are only shirts. I could see why it would upset people though, some of these symbols existed before WWII but do have a different meaning to people after that.
They sure seem to have done alot of 1:1 copies, not every original. :)
Also I've read on MiddleEasy that BJ Penn will be wearing his banned RVCA shirt on UFC107, interesting. :)|||
Just added the pic so people can see whats on the shirts.
Honestly I dont care, they are only shirts. I could see why it would upset people though, some of these symbols existed before WWII but do have a different meaning to people after that.
They sure seem to have done alot of 1:1 copies, not every original. :)
Also I've read on MiddleEasy that BJ Penn will be wearing his banned RVCA shirt on UFC107, interesting. :)
Ah, i wasn't refering to you, just the pictures and people complaining about it. I definitely can see where they are coming from but like i said, a 10 minute read and research you can easily see that these symbols have different meaning.
The only one that does bug me a little is the Fourth Reich one. It can be associated with Nazi's but it also can mean the next reign. Even still they are pushing the boundaries with that one.
*EDIT* Also I hope he wears it. Also if it goes to decision and he loses, I am going to call the fight fixed :)|||I grew up with Bikers and the like that commonly wear the Iron Cross however in Bikers the Iron Cross never came close to being a complete Nazi ripoff like this clothing line. It's not just the Iron Cross, it's the fact that the designs and color scheme are the same the Nazi's use. I mean that clothing line is following designs used by the SS in scheme and color. It's much different from a Biker's cross which usually is just the Iron Cross but isn't colored or put on the same design as the SS symbol.
I mean these T-shirts look like Nazi uniforms, simple as that.
Here's pic of the Iron Cross used with bikers to help contrast
See the cross is used there but it's clearly not Nazism or Military as the Hoelzer Reich outfits that portray German military design from 1940.
So It's not really the cross that's the problem here, it's the fact that the way it's used is and presented is very close to how the Nazi party used it. I mean you put an Iron Eagle, Dethshead, and a Iron Cross on the same T-shirt and expect people not to associate it with Nazism when you use the Black/Red Nazi colors? Even if the clothing line isn't racist, I can say without a doubt that it's not very original.|||Look at this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_flags
Look at North German Confederation and German Empire. Looks pretty familiar right? Another thing the Nazi's took from Germany's vast history and tried to make it their own. A lot of the symbols they used were already associated with soldiers and war. Insignias worn by German soldiers, not Nazis. Again, these have been around way before any of the Nazi stuff happened.|||
So because a 2 guys who are white supremacists where given or bought shirts that makes them a Nazi company?
Also those symbols again have been used through out history. Just because the Nazi's wore them, it wasnt something created by them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo_rune
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptmann
These are all symbols that have been around long before Nazis. They are symbols that they took and tried to make their own. Don't get me wrong, I am not a white supremacist or anything but I hate it when people point out things and start slandering people because they do not understand. Also I am a history buff :)
Either way, I can see the point like i said earlier but if you do a little dip into history you can see a lot of these symbols were around before WWII.
Exactly, next thing you know Zuffa is going to ban products that are part of the Coca-Cola family because not only did the Nazi party use their colors (supposedly it wasn't all that coincidental either), and several members of the Coca-Cola company were part of the Nazi Party.
Another example of something that was used a certain way during WWII and has now become kinda "taboo" is any "eagle symbol" that looks anything close to the incarnation of the Reichsadler used during Nazi rule. The actual Reichsadler has been around since the 1100s and has had many various over-hauls/styles, with the Nazi incarnation being one of the ones that was one of the more modern style ones. For example both Germany and the USA use Eagles as their symbol, Personally I am of German heritage (well basic middle-European mutt, but majority German), so as an American of German decent I use a custom made version of the Reichsadler as part of my Sim Racing team logo, with the Eagle representing America and Germany. Ever since I started using it earlier this year, the amount of flack I've gotten over it is overwhelming funny. Before I go on I'll post the logo.
Now yes it may look like the Reichsadler used under Nazi-Rule, but that is not what it's supposed to be, it's what it's based off of, but not what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be an Eagle that has attitude, that's what all the hard edges and sharp angles represent. The idea kinda came part from a concept version of a new Pontiac Firebird logo (the attitude/sharpness of it). I get all kinds of "hatemail" from people saying that I'm a Nazi for using it when it's just an updated version of a symbol that has been used for well over 900 years.
So yeah I can kinda understand how much it sucks for that company (and the fighters sponsored by it) to essentially have that brand blackballed because a logo that has been around for hundereds of years was used for 12 years by the "bad guys".
Next thing ya know Zuffa will be banning Jesse James and thousands of other Motorcycle people/clubs/builders/parts-vendors from being involved with them because they all use the Iron Cross, as well as wrestler HHH.
Better let the various fire companies out there too know about this because well the Maltese cross and the entire Cross pattée "family" are "cousins" and very very similar looking.
Oh and while they're at it they better blackball the band KISS too, afterall in their logo the SS looks a lot like the Nazi SS logo.
:)
|||
Oh and while they're at it they better blackball the band KISS too, afterall in their logo the SS looks a lot like the Nazi SS logo.
:)
Actually when Kiss Plays in Germany the SS is just normal and not lightning bolts. Look I majored in History, WW2 and American Civil War to be more exact so I'm use to hearing people defend symbols or be offended by them (the confederate flag is a perfect example). We all know the Nazis had an amazing PR campaign using pre-established notions of Teutonic/Prussian military victory, ripping off everything from the Roman salute to the *. However when you're clothing line has an SS officer's cap, and SS officer rankings which were different from the Wermacht, along with common Nazi Slogans, and you officially sponser known Neo-Nazis and send them free shwag then I would say the clothing line is suspect. You are all right however that these symbols have been around for years but the Death's Head the Prussian Army used is different from the SS deaths head which is the one used in the clothing line. You look at the Wermacht uniforms in 1919 compared to 1940-45 and this clothing line resembles a lot of the propaganda posters/art that the Nazis used to recruit, if it was simply German heritage I could understand however it's using the symbols in the same way. If this clothing line is about heritage why have a skeleton wearing an SS uniform? Why not a Teutonic knight, or Prussian Line infantryman, or Kaiser soldier, why specifically the SS uniform, not the Wermacht, but SS?
|||
/thread|||
/thread
Read the rest of the thread before looking at one picture. I posted several reasons why this picture is not right. Also some reasons in MasterEnemys thread too.|||Racism attempting to hide under the guise of heritage...
we've been down this road before.|||
So because a 2 guys who are white supremacists where given or bought shirts that makes them a Nazi company?
Also those symbols again have been used through out history. Just because the Nazi's wore them, it wasnt something created by them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo_rune
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptmann
These are all symbols that have been around long before Nazis. They are symbols that they took and tried to make their own. Don't get me wrong, I am not a white supremacist or anything but I hate it when people point out things and start slandering people because they do not understand. Also I am a history buff :)
Either way, I can see the point like i said earlier but if you do a little dip into history you can see a lot of these symbols were around before WWII.
Those symbols have been tainted, I don't have a problem with the ban.|||
Oh and while they're at it they better blackball the band KISS too, afterall in their logo the SS looks a lot like the Nazi SS logo.
:)
Actually when Kiss Plays in Germany the SS is just normal and not lightning bolts. Look I majored in History, WW2 and American Civil War to be more exact so I'm use to hearing people defend symbols or be offended by them (the confederate flag is a perfect example). We all know the Nazis had an amazing PR campaign using pre-established notions of Teutonic/Prussian military victory, ripping off everything from the Roman salute to the *. However when you're clothing line has an SS officer's cap, and SS officer rankings which were different from the Wermacht, along with common Nazi Slogans, and you officially sponser known Neo-Nazis and send them free shwag then I would say the clothing line is suspect. You are all right however that these symbols have been around for years but the Death's Head the Prussian Army used is different from the SS deaths head which is the one used in the clothing line. You look at the Wermacht uniforms in 1919 compared to 1940-45 and this clothing line resembles a lot of the propaganda posters/art that the Nazis used to recruit, if it was simply German heritage I could understand however it's using the symbols in the same way. If this clothing line is about heritage why have a skeleton wearing an SS uniform? Why not a Teutonic knight, or Prussian Line infantryman, or Kaiser soldier, why specifically the SS uniform, not the Wermacht, but SS?
Agree 100% Nova.
Look, I get the symbolism play that they are trying to use. Trying to take something that is KNOWN for being wicked and evil and bending the image to fit in with their appeal to make it look "cool", or "dangerous". The problem however is: it no longer matters what those symbols meant BEFORE the Nazi's got ahold of them, its about what those symbols or ones DAMN close have come to represent SINCE the Nazi's ounce used them. "Tainted" is a great word that fits the reresentation of this clothing lines current symbolism. Theres NO possible way for these guys to take these symbols after what they have come to mean in modern history and get them recognized for MMA over what they represent throughout the world as symbols of a ounce oppressive and devestating regime.
This ban is warrented imo.|||
Oh and while they're at it they better blackball the band KISS too, afterall in their logo the SS looks a lot like the Nazi SS logo.
:)
Actually when Kiss Plays in Germany the SS is just normal and not lightning bolts. Look I majored in History, WW2 and American Civil War to be more exact so I'm use to hearing people defend symbols or be offended by them (the confederate flag is a perfect example). We all know the Nazis had an amazing PR campaign using pre-established notions of Teutonic/Prussian military victory, ripping off everything from the Roman salute to the *. However when you're clothing line has an SS officer's cap, and SS officer rankings which were different from the Wermacht, along with common Nazi Slogans, and you officially sponser known Neo-Nazis and send them free shwag then I would say the clothing line is suspect. You are all right however that these symbols have been around for years but the Death's Head the Prussian Army used is different from the SS deaths head which is the one used in the clothing line. You look at the Wermacht uniforms in 1919 compared to 1940-45 and this clothing line resembles a lot of the propaganda posters/art that the Nazis used to recruit, if it was simply German heritage I could understand however it's using the symbols in the same way. If this clothing line is about heritage why have a skeleton wearing an SS uniform? Why not a Teutonic knight, or Prussian Line infantryman, or Kaiser soldier, why specifically the SS uniform, not the Wermacht, but SS?
Agree 100% Nova.
Look, I get the symbolism play that they are trying to use. Trying to take something that is KNOWN for being wicked and evil and bending the image to fit in with their appeal to make it look "cool", or "dangerous". The problem however is: it no longer matters what those symbols meant BEFORE the Nazi's got ahold of them, its about what those symbols or ones DAMN close have come to represent SINCE the Nazi's ounce used them. "Tainted" is a great word that fits the reresentation of this clothing lines current symbolism. Theres NO possible way for these guys to take these symbols after what they have come to mean in modern history and get them recognized for MMA over what they represent throughout the world as symbols of a ounce oppressive and devestating regime.
This ban is warrented imo.
totally agree
reguardless what the symbols meant prior to ww2, those symbols have been tainted in a horrible way, and they couldve used a shhhhload of different ones rather than market there ENTIRE clothing line with designs that were used by nazi's... plus the shirt with the quote "The Fourth Reich Has Begun", i dont think u can defend that one at all
the ban is definatly warranted
No comments:
Post a Comment